Calendar
Network
Feeds
- 50
- Sphinn It!
Went Hot: October 3, 2008 - 6:30 am
Posted By: gyutae 61 days ago
Topic Type: News Story (Jump to http://www.winningtheweb.com)
Category: SEO
20 Comments
Went Hot: October 3, 2008 - 6:30 am
Posted By: gyutae 61 days ago
Topic Type: News Story (Jump to http://www.winningtheweb.com)
Category: SEO
20 Comments
Top 10 Most Sphunn
In What's New
- Google analytics for SEO part III -... (20)
- Stop Paying Google! SEO vs PPC (19)
- Facebook Nearly Doubles US Users in... (18)
- Making Geotargeted Content Findable... (18)
- 5 Ways PPC, Social Media & SEO Work... (17)
- Top 10 Reasons for PPC & SEO Synerg... (17)
- SEO Bookmarklets Collection: On-Pag... (15)
- The SEMpdx Searchfest Session That ... (15)
- Web Analytics Q&A with Eric T. Pete... (15)
- trendwatching.com's December 2008 T... (15)
Latest Comments
- @incrediblehelp: I'm glad you enjoyed the post. @
- actually no ones been unhappy. I think they'd rather be safe.…
- @thegypsy couldnt agree more. have been able to make some incredible custom…
- Wow, thnx J it MUST be Xmas season to get some luvin from yer bad self huh?…
- Not sure why you're so fixated on protecting your rights to create fake ava…
- I can post top cities for SEO jobs, as well, if there is interest.…
- Ultimately the answer is a mixture of SEO & PPC to satisfy short term and l…
- I joined sphinn today, and must say this post has been worth signing up. Ex…
- - read more -
Save the date for:
• SMX West - Feb. 10-12, 2009
• SMX Munich - April 22-23, 2009
• SMX Social Media Marketing - April 29-30
• SMX Advanced - June 2-3, 2009
Learn more about search marketing through free online webcasts and webinars from our sister site Search Marketing Now.
Upcoming Webcasts:
Comments
Personally, I don't think that even the technical aspects of SEO can be standardized, but I haven't tried the software.
Just another angle to scam businesses, IMHO. This post says absolutely nothing of course, for a good reason. The less you know about what the software actually does, the better. Google is positively against the use of so-called SEO software. What this software actually does could be as dumb as mass submission to search engines, directories, and of course the ever popular constant checking of pagerank and SERPs rankings. Nobody can agree on how to measure keyword density, for example, let alone what its numerics should be.
There are plenty of FREE SEO online evaluations of webpages available from many different websites.
The technical analysis aspects of SEO can certainly be somewhat automated with or assisted by software tools. I don't know about specific "shrinkwrap" or downloadable tools.
The tools I use, I wrote myself.
There are plenty of fundamental processes which not only can, but should, be automated; the less time you spend plugging data into a spreadsheet for a client, the more time you can spend fine-tuning their pages or creating unique content.
That said, there are a lot of SEOs who don't possess the programming chops to make their own functioning tools. Are "SEO in a can" applications like RankSense the answer? No, probably not.
If I'm working on a project and I realize that I could save time (and, in effect, money) by using a script to manage a portion of my task then I'll shell out a little cash and outsource to either a programmer I know or another outside developer.
Working in-house and you don't have a few developers in your network? Hit up someone in your IT department and offer it as a sidejob for some extra cash. You'll end up with a tool specifically tailored to the task at hand, with no recurring fees.
@qwerty
I would have to disagree with you on that one. I think the technical aspects of SEO can be standardized to a point - at least in terms of saving time and performing mundane tasks. For example, every SEO is going to check for rankings, traffic, technical barriers, etc. Of course, the analysis portion can never be automated but the technical tasks can.
@JohnHGohde
I did write a review of Ranksense in a previous post (which I linked to in this one) so it's not like I'm hiding anything. I agree with you that there are tons of software packages out there that scam businesses and do absolutely nothing, but it doesn't always have to be that way. What I like about this particular program in general is that it automates the technical aspects of a campaign and EDUCATES the user on what is being done. That's the biggest thing. I totally agree that no one can agree on things like measuring keyword density, but a software package is still a good way to get started. Heck, it's how I first got introduced to the industry a while back.
@rjonesx
What are your indispensible tools? If you don't mind sharing of course.. :)
@peterdaly
That seems to be a common characteristic of the top SEO's... they all have their own private propietary tools. I guess tools lose their effectiveness, the more people that are using them.
@NickRM
I agree with you on that aspect... For experienced SEO's, private tools that are custom-made are probably better than automated public solutions like Ranksense.
However, these software packages are targeted more towards inexperienced SEO's and business owners who don't have much knowledge about the whole process. They would have no idea what to get custom made to begin with...
Also, an advantage of using something like Ranksense over your own tools is that it has a better interface, less bugs, and more maintenance time. In essence, the recurring fees guarantee that the tool will always be working (which is not the case with your own tools and can cause headache later on) and can save you time and money in the long run. Of course, this is speaking more for the standard SEO processes and not to gain a competitive advantage.
I have not tried the tools mentioned here, but I do think some aspects of SEO can be automated. Anyone that uses SEO for FireFox is already automating part of their daily tasks as an SEO, as it will run back link checks, tell you PR, and several other things that a SEO'er would need to otherwise do them self.
Automation does have its limits though, and any program that automates content or links is something I would not want anything to do with.
@Qutae
In essence, the recurring fees guarantee that the tool will always be working
You're guaranteeing that RankSense will remain operational with "less bugs, and more maintenance time" than privately developed proprietary software? If a novice webmaster begins paying for the tool and becomes reliant upon it and you decide it's no longer economically viable to continue service then they're SOL.
Recently, one of my proprietary tools ceased functioning. The protocol which it was based upon had changed, in a small way, but it rendered the tool unusable. It cost me exactly $75 to fix, after I spent about an hour on it myself.
A far better method for "inexperienced SEO's and business owners" is to do what a lot of people who read this comment are doing right now: read articles and learn. You stated that one of the major benefits of using RankSense is that it explains each step -- does RankSense offer a better explanation than spending an hour browsing some of the top SEO blogs?
Not only is it more economically viable to invest one employee to learn the ins and outs of this industry, but you're far better off for it in the long run. They'll know more. A step above that is hiring a reputable SEO with a proven track record to manage your company's sites. I believe that comparing the ROI would make a tool like RankSense totally irrelevant.
@NickRM
"If a novice webmaster begins paying for the tool and becomes reliant upon it and you decide it's no longer economically viable to continue service then they're SOL."
This is definitely a problem, and I agree with you. However, a lot of times it's not economically viable for these webmasters to invest in new tools, nor do they have the expertise and know-how to create them. Again, private tools are better for experienced SEO's - there's no denying that. But for the industry as a whole and for newbies, software is a good starting point.
"does RankSense offer a better explanation than spending an hour browsing some of the top SEO blogs?"
In my opinion, yes. I find that actually doing something on your own, even if it's following the guidelines and seeing the results through an SEO program, is better than reading SEO blogs (which tend to be full of fluff these days). Experience is the best teacher and it helps you to formulate your own processes and opinions rather than following everyone else.
I agree with you on many of your points, but I'm looking at this issue from the perspective of people not already familiar with everything SEO. I think being soaked up in the world of SEO makes us think of things as common knowledge, when in fact they are not.
@Qyutae
However, a lot of times it's not economically viable for these webmasters to invest in new tools, nor do they have the expertise and know-how to create them.
One word: India. I may sound like a dick for that, but at the same time, I can drop $500 on a custom web application that I'll use almost indefinitely, and if you develop a good relationship with a talented outsourcing firm then updating the code will be inexpensive, painless and infrequent.
I disagree with you VERY strongly about starting places for "newbies." Canned software is how people get ripped off, disenfranchised, and eventually come to the conclusion that all SEOs are selling snake-oil. In my honest and very uneducated (still haven't tried the 90-day RankSense trial) opinion, your software is doing more harm than good.
I find that actually doing something on your own, even if it's following the guidelines and seeing the results through an SEO program, is better than reading SEO blogs (which tend to be full of fluff these days).
I'm in total agreement. Do it by hand before you start delegating tasks to automatons.
What that means, however, is that people should learn up and do it themselves prior to purchasing your software. I have a feeling that if one person spent the time required to properly begin an SEO campaign with their own website then they'll find your software unnecessary, which brings us back to your point that RankSense is for novice SEOs.
Look, for a small business that does not see the benefit in outsourcing to an SEO or hiring one in-house, even reading Sphinn will be more beneficial to them than downloading RankSense. Claiming to focus on the small business that doesn't know the basics assumes they'll be able to interpret the data from your program and put it to good use.
Challenge
I'll take a random reader who knows next to nothing about Search Engine Optimization, and train them via Instant Messenger and Skype for one day. Not a full day - just 3-4 hours. If they're the least bit savvy to begin with they'll outrank someone with your software for a low competition keyword at the end of 90 days.
Wager can be discussed privately.
@NickRM (my name is Gyutae! haha)
Haha, interesting wager there... Although it is a bit lopsided. Your time is worth something as an SEO consultant, so it really doesn't compare to measuring that against a program. Of course the customized SEO help will win out.
Ranksense isn't my software btw. I'm just discussing SEO software like it and its implications.
I agree with you that a lot of canned SEO software programs are scams... However, I like Ranksense because it's a bit different from the others. It actually lets you see the process and eventually do it for yourself if you had to. I suggest you try it out at least and see if your opinion changes.
Ultimately, I think we're on the same page... we just perceive differently what SEO software is.
Hamlet Batista here. The creator of RankSEnse.
Thanks Qyutae. Very interesting discussion here.
This is one of the reasons I like the SEO community so much. It is very hard to get us to agree on ANYTHING, yet we still expect regular guys to trust us with their websites and money. It think the best way to prove our value is by delivering measureble results. That is why I back my software with a 90-day money back guarantee. I don't want money from people that I am not able to help. Period.
I love constructive criticism, but I think it is a good idea to spend a couple of minutes reading RankSense reviews and/or reading the website copy to better understand what the software claims to do before making funny suggestions. It would make your comments look smarter.
@ NickRM
It appears you think that EVERY website owner can afford to hire a reliable SEO consultant or that EVERY website owner is interested in becoming an SEO expert by reading SEO blogs or that they have the knowledge to ask for what they want to be automated.
SEO is only one of the ways they can drive traffic to their sites (which is their ultimate goal) and that they have a business to run and maybe SEO is not their top priority.
As SEOs, we hardly agree on ANYTHING, but I think that we at least agree that anyone can get more quality search traffic if they achieve any or all of these three things:
1) Get more quality links and visibility2)Target keywords with more demand and commercial intention3)Create more content and make sure it gets indexed
RankSense only claims to help with that. In the case of links, it can help identify them but getting links and creating content is only something that humans can do (unless you are engaing in black hat tactics)
@Gyutae (I'm dumb with letters - sorry!)
I will try it out- absolutely. Tomorow. If it makes my job the least bit easier in comparison to my investment, I will be singing your praises.
The idea of "seeing the process" from the lens of an SEO software suite leaves me uncomfortable. I'd rather be able to analyze the information directly. That said, if RankSense can potentially improve my clients' results, I'd be obligated to use it.
Ranksense isn't my software btw. I'm just discussing SEO software like it and its implications.
Can't bullshit a bullshitter, bud. You're hosting the software, the service, and your face is on the frontpage of its domain. RankSense's developer is irrelevant, as you stand to gain significantly by its success.
In your article entitled "What SEO Software Means For the SEO Community" you pimp RankSense - you link to other services, but always explain why paying for RankSense is a better alternative.
If you're trying to be sneaky, you're focusing on the wrong community.
@NickRM
LOL. Gyutae is using an iFrame that makes it look like the software is hosted on his site. This is the RankSense domain www.ranksense.com
We developed and own the software, etc.
@HamletBatista
EDIT: I feel so dumb! Wish I had noticed that. Given the situation, my opinions still stand, however. What's your relationship with his website?
First of all, you have such a dramatic name that I'd like to move to Vermont and marry you and then if possible take your first name, too, as a sign of devotion.
Moving on:
It appears you think that EVERY website owner can afford to hire a reliable SEO consultant or that EVERY website owner is interested in becoming an SEO expert by reading SEO blogs or that they have the knowledge to ask for what they want to be automated.
I don't think I suggested that at all. Quite the contrary, in fact. I proposed that a webmaster interested in search engine optimization (amongst other things) would be far better off spending a little bit of time researching their options prior to investing any money.
That's how I got into SEO. I had a website, I had no money, but I wanted to get more traffic. I started reading. After I felt as though I had accumulated enough knowledge to make a stab at it, I developed a strategy and implemented it. I tested things. Guess what?
It worked.
1) Get more quality links and visibility2)Target keywords with more demand and commercial intention3)Create more content and make sure it gets indexed
Ok, I was actually more supportive of your software before I read this. I don't automate any of what you suggested. What you're suggesting is deceptive:
@NickRM
LOL. RankSense does not generate content for you. If you spent the same time you are spending here to read the website copy and watch the demo at a minimum you will understand better what the software does.
You can get almost anything that you want online for free: software, information and even help in forums, groups and mailing lists. Why pay for anything then? People pay for these things because they value their time. They prefer to pay instead of trying to figure out everything on their own and lose opportunities.
You can get free hosting, free website templates, free content, free links, free seo advice ... and free help on Yahoo groups. Why pay then?
You need to value your time. That is a simple yet profound concept.
But you're advertising your product in a community designed to give away those tools and information for free. I don't see how it's "profound."
You can get free hosting, free website templates, free content, free links, free seo advice ... and free help on Yahoo groups. Why pay then?
Competitive edge. None of which this software offers.
LOL. I'm still looking here for the RankSense ad you mention.
That is exactly why I get customers that prefer save time by using my software.
Well. It is hard to please everybody. At least I'm glad that it is 34 to 1 so far. Most see the value of saving valuable time by automating repetitive tasks.
Cheers
Lol, nicely put! I love it how Hamlet formulates his ideas.
Actually as far as I noticed there are very few people who never agree with anyone... most SEO people are eager to accept many (even contradicting) points of view as only profoundly stupid people (sorry) think they are always right.